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Sunday, June 06, 2010

Graham Showell and Britain Needs Guns - sheer idiocy?

Graham Showell appears to be one of the UK's leading proponent and supporter of allowing all kinds of guns to be legally held by anyone who wants one.

To my mind, him and his arguments are beyond comprehension. Without any doubt, his thoughts in this area, however he expresses them, are akin to the politics of the madhouse. Heaven help us if he ever got his way. Thankfully, I'm sure commons sense will prevail and his ridiculous logic will never win the day.

He appeared on the BBC's Big Questions this morning and met stiff resistance from most of the audience for his pro-gun opinions. It was shocking that such foolish, misguided comment was allowed a serious airing - but there you go, it's a free country and, in the media spotlight, I reckon his stance could not stand up to the scrutiny of those of us who are far wiser then he is.

Thank goodness for people like Lucy Cope, a leader of anti-crime group Mothers Against Guns. Her zero tolerance approach to possession of guns in Britain came across pretty well on the programme.

Lucy Cope - Mothers Against Guns

Graham Showell was just appalling - he would like the entire country to be able to arm themselves for personal protection. Putting weapons into the hands of people with such a cavalier disregard for the consequences really doesn't bear thinking about.

But we have to think about it because people like this exist, god help us. It is just this type of stupid thinking that leads people to carry knives for personal protection. Sadly the statistics show people are more likely to end up stabbed if they actually carry a knife. The same would undoubtedly happen with guns. Graham Showell and his Britain Needs Guns website and campaign... words fail me - his arguments need exposing for the falseness they represent, and hopefully his campaign will collapse.

26 comments:

  1. http://guncontrolnetwork.blogspot.com/2010/05/grandmother-faces-five-years-for-80.html

    You do know that most of the people facing mandatory sentences for possession of firearms are otherwise law abiding people who happen to have kept a relic/antique and not murderers? Lucy Cope wants these people to be locked away for 10 years minimum. She's devoid of all logic and reasoning.

    "Sadly the statistics show people are more likely to end up stabbed if they actually carry a knife"

    Please show me those statistics. Are you saying that being armed in an attack makes you less likely to be able to defend yourself from said attack? YOu say the same would happen with guns - can you back that up? As far as I can see, US statistics show that you are less likely to be a victim of a violent attack should you be armed.

    Have deaths by guns been reduced since the handgun ban in 1997? How about shotgun licensing in 1967? The answer is quite simply no.

    Criminals do not follow the law. Police can't protect you. Demand your right to protect YOURSELF be respected.

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  2. she did quite the opposite.
    she shouted like a loonatic and used false facts.

    she told how a boy in peckham was shot with a mac10. and all guns need to be ilegal.

    i hate to tell you but a mac10 is a fully automatic (by defualt) machine pistol or sub machine gun. pistols being ilegal cancels it out anyway but it was fully automatic so it was baned TWISE.

    the gun was already banned yet the gun laws did abosolutely nothing to stop this atrosity hapenning.

    everyone i know who watched the interupted show thought the same.

    shame on you for putting a peaceful mans name to shame when you have no idear what you are talking about.

    Graham Showell is a hero for having the courage to say what we are all thinking.
    her son may have been saved if it was for men like Graham.

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  3. So. Mr Showell should not have been allowed onto the program? And being shouted down by an angry harridan is balanced, in your view?
    The fact is her son was killed with a banned item, so are you going to ban them again? If you destroy every single licensed gun in the world, how are you going to find the illegal ones? I have just watched a program where the police were fired on with a weapon banned since the 1920s, a machine gun! Still here even though banned. What can you do about that? Ban them twice? What his website sets out is the need and right to have access to adequate protection-not just guns, but pepper sprays such as the police use (which are in the same catagory as a machine gun by the way). A world without guns is an ideal place, but there are always idiots and madmen who will find alternative means to do evil. You cannot ban people sadly!

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  4. I agree with him! It's a right we used to have untill about 1950.

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  5. I only just found out about this article. I wanted to give my reply, though I'll be surprised if this actually gets published.

    Firstly if you want to call me an idiot, that's fine. I support freedom of speech as much as I support gun ownership. To me, the idea of leaving someone defenceless against criminals is morally abhorrent. I take it you've never been raped, stabbed or mugged in the street, as many people here in the UK have.

    You may decide that not having a gun is the best option; that is your decision and I respect that. However, it does not, under any circumstances, give you the right to decide for others, which is what you appear to be doing.

    "Sadly the statistics show people are more likely to end up stabbed if they actually carry a knife. The same would undoubtedly happen with guns."

    Another misguided comment with no proof to support it. I hear the argument that the US has a higher murder rate than Britain simply because guns are easy to obtain in that country.

    However, the US murder rate has dropped by more than 40 percent in the last 20 years, yet gun laws have become more relaxed and gun sales have increased during that time.

    It's also interesting that over the past 2 decades more and more US states have passed laws that allow their citizens to obtain "concealed carry" permits so they can legally carry handguns in public.

    That isn't proof that the crime rate has dropped solely because of the relaxation of gun laws, but the fact that the murder and violent crime rates in the US have declined and not risen IS proof that that allowing people to be armed does not increase crime rates and might actually contribute to a decrease in violence.

    Another argument that I keep hearing is that the US has more "gun murders" than the UK. We do have a much lower rate of gun homicide than the US, but that has always been the case. How is a murder carried out with a firearm any more serious than one carried out by stabbing, beating or any other method ? What exactly is the difference ?

    That's my bit said. Now I hope you really do think that it's a free country and print this comment.

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    Replies
    1. hi Graham. How do I access your website britainneedsguns? every time I try, I just get this starnge message at the top of the screen about hitting the "reload" button.
      I'm with you, btw. We need a proper bill of rights in the UK, and that would definitely iclude the god-given right to bear arms.

      Delete
  6. So what should I do when murdering rapist home-invaders are about to rape/kill my family?

    Call 999? Wait 30mins for police? Yeah right.

    We should be allowed to defend ourselves and be given the proper tools to do so.

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  7. I am disgusted that you would imply that Graham shouldnt be allowed to voice his oppinion, just because you dont agree with it. This is Britain, not North Korea.

    If you look at gun crime statistics, from the 1950s onwards (the time when the first strict gun control laws came into force), you will notice that gun crime has been rising almost constantly ever since, never once dropping bellow the pre 1950s level. Despite the fact that during this period firearms restrictions have become increasingly tighter. You need to face the fact that gun control has persistantly failed to do what it set out to do.

    Today we are in a situation where a law abiding person has very little effective means to defend themselves in the home, and absolutely no means of protecting themselves in public. But criminals intent on causing harm have no issues breaking weapons laws, and carrying whatever the hell they like. And why should they be afraid of the law? If they are willing to risk life in prison for killing or raping someone, they arnt going to be fazed by 5 or so years in jail for weapons violations. You are naive if you think these weapon restrictions have made us safer.

    "statistically if you carry a weapon its more likely to be taken off you and used against you". I hear that a lot from this blog and similar anti-weapon groups and even the direct.gov website, but not once has anyone shown me any incidents where that has actually happened. Nobody has shown me these "statistics" either. Is it really true or something you people have completely made up? Im going to asume the latter, because i sure as hell havent found anything to confirm your claims.

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  8. British gun owners are among the most lawful abiding people in British Society. This is because they know that any wrongdoing and they would have their firearms taken away. I would rather live in a country where more peopel had guns than in a country where guns were banned from civilian ownership. Countries such as China, Mexico and Brazil ban most firearms from civilian posession and look how friendly they are!

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  9. WOW every one i know believes in Grahams views, one day me and a few mates were sat in the pub having our usual pint after work when one of my mates told us he was mugged at gun point the night before, when he had given the guys his cash he rang the police who came round to his house a few hours after.
    he gave the police his statement and after a quick chat the officer said "this isn't the first case we have had, in fact we have had 4 this week, one victim was with out his wallet and shot and was critical in hospital" so my friend asked what should the public do in a armed mugging situation? the police officer replied "give him every thing you have even the shirt off your back, off the record chances are we will never catch them which is why me and several other officers believe that the public should be able to protect the selves whether it be with a gun, mace or tazer"
    they talked for a good half hour and the officer told him that the only people that walk around armed are criminals and so are confident in muggings rape and murder!!
    a few weeks after i watched a BBC program with Lucy cope and graham and although the transmission was interrupting i found Lucy very obnoxious, loud and to be honest a bit crazy, graham kept calm and spoke very politely hes views made sense where Lucy seems to know nothing about what guns are legal and not i believe she said that a MAC10 was legal so after investigating her claims they all turned out to be lies and with some investigation you will find the same.
    i have not always been a pro gun kind of person but thank you Lucy for making me research the truth.
    now me and my friends sit in the pub talking about how guns SHOULD be made legal.

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  10. A few questions:

    1. Do you really think Lucy Cope came across well on the Big Question? However valid or invalid her points are she always sounds nothing short of rude and/or rabid to me.

    2. Could you post a link to the stats that support what you say about carrying a knife increasing your chances of being stabbed. I only ask because I made a Freedom of Info request to the Met and they cant provide any.

    3. Could you please name one country in the world where murder rates have decreased after a gun control law or a gun ban was put in place? Perhaps your 'wise' friend Lucy Cope could suggest one?

    4. Could you please point me to your other journalistic work.

    Many thanks in advance.

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  11. It is worth pointing out that ownership of guns in the states leads to nothing more than an increased death rate. Most of those that end up dead are innocent victims and not demented rapists who break into homes intent of wreaking havoc. That is the fact of the matter. It is also worth pointing out, and please check these stats out, but do your own research, that 40 police officers have been shot dead in the US so far this year. This where gun laws are extremely lenient. It is very rare here that an officer is shot, and that is due to our gun control.

    Another fact is, that about 43% (figure fluctuates slightly) of officers killed by firearms in the US, are in fact killed with their own weapons. If highly skilled highly trained law enforcement officers cannot retain their weapons during an incident, are you all seriously arrogant enough to think you will be ale to?

    I like living in a country that has strict gun control, but like Lucy Cope, I would welcome a full and complete ban. Until then we need to seriously look at the laws we have, which are not quite as "strict" as most believe. Laws vary in different areas. I would like to see laws implemented nationwide.

    I agree with the statement that those armed with knives will be the most likely to die from a knife wound. I have the statistics for that somewhere, they are available, and I will attempt to dog them out.

    You cannot argue with the fact that if nobody caried a knife, nor any kind of firearm, for use as a weapon, legally or otherwise, then nobody would lose their life to either.

    I would like to end by saying Lucy Cope is not a "harriden". She is a mother, who unlike any of her critics above, knows what it is like to satnd at a grave, mourning her child, who was taken by the use of a firearm.

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  12. guns need to be only used for the purpose of shooting game in the country there is no need for a gun in a city council estate.
    If used for the right reasons and under strict supervision then I belive guns are ok....but I am concerned by the use of guns and knives to try and end a gang related problem etc and that is where we need the justice system to crack down.
    To own a gun licence maybe u should join a gun club and the gun must be kept in a strong room at the gun club and not at home and nobody under 18 is allowed a gun licence.

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  13. Are we talking home protection here. As you all mention Carry a gun is that in the home or on our person all the time.
    As people who carry knives stabb people then so will people who carry guns.
    If you say you were in a shop an it was being robbed you would more than likely try to shoot the robber but if you didn't have a gun would be wimpering in the corner like the little baby you are as we know when you have a gun your are much stronger so my point is you will cause more bother with weapons than if you didn't carry one. We are always gonna have looneys out there so why join them.

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  14. I'm in Australia where firearms are strictly controlled, yet we see reports in the papers of almost daily shootings. In Australia self defence is not a reason to own a firearm but apparently criminal intent is because our criminals have not been deterred by the laws.

    One is told to ring the police in case of trouble consequently one is reminded of the saying "When seconds count the police are only minutes away".

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  15. i agree with Bruce, i feel your opinions are based on false testimony and made up anti-gun "facts". could you please publish your findings with sources? i have investigated this for a past publication and have found that gun control does the opposite as criminals feel more confident when committing a crime. And also i had trouble with asking for information from the police i too applied for a freedom of information request which went unanswered so had to use stats from previous years.

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  16. Anonymous said...
    guns need to be only used for the purpose of shooting game in the country there is no need for a gun in a city council estate. etc etc

    no you cant take the liberty's of only a few i live in the country and we DO need guns you cant say "no your not allowed a gun because you live in a city/town" that is discrimination!!!! and we are not looking to end gang crime by owning guns we are looking for protection should we be held up by one of those gang members etc. as for not keeping weapons at home i live 14miles from the nearest town and double that that to the nearest gun club you expect me to travel that far on a motorbike (my only mode of transport)there and back with a gun on my back? NO WAY id be pulled every 3 miles! our laws are restrictive as a sports shooter i have to jump though hoops to have keep my gun and guess what there is still criminals with illegal guns i know how do they get guns?? oh wait they are illegal!!

    RE tony's post:
    i totally believe in home protection whether its a freakin knife or shot gun i will do what ever i can to protect my possessions and that goes for out doors before we have a OH MY GOD LOONEY MOMENT you don't have to pull out a gun an kill a guy trying to rob you, you can give a warning and most will back off gun owners are not loonies we are the most sensible people in the world!
    OK scenario tony what would you do if you were held at gun/knife point and had no money?? dial 999 and hope he runs away? tell him you have nothing? or try to learn self defence in the 30 seconds before you get shot/stabbed??

    I'm not trying to sound patronising I'm just trying to get a hold of the antis way of thinking.

    thanks

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  17. Thankfully the comments added are the views of the vocal minority, not the silent minority. Of which I am proud to be one... (Well in this case not so silent!)
    The silent minority believe the real problem is with the UK judicial system, where carrying any sort of weapon (knife or firearm) should carry a mandatory 10 year sentence (no time off for good behaviour).
    Ok enough said back to being a silent member of the majority.

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    Replies
    1. Guns don't kill people, people do. After Dunblane, a machette was used in an attack on children. If people want to commit murder, they will find a way to do it, guns or not. Criminals don't apply for a license. Yes! License holders have run amok with a firearm, but that is a rare and unusual occurance. I own guns, I shoot clays and targets - it's my form of recreation, so some will say I am biased. More people are killed by motor vehicles than legally held firearms and no-ne would think of banning them. The idea postulated by this post that there should be a mandatory additional sentence for the possession/use of a weapon in the course of a crime sounds like an excellent one. I would make it 20 years - if you made it 'life' they'd probably be out in a couple of years. One additional thought, in Switzerland, most (not all) houses have firearms, including both machine guns and sub-machine guns, in then as the Country has no standing army. There is not a significant death toll from gunshot in the population. New York has even tougher gun laws than the UK, but they still get gun crime.

      Delete
  18. "carrying any sort of weapon (knife or firearm) should carry a mandatory 10 year sentence (no time off for good behaviour)."

    I know of a women who now carries a pepper spray gun after she was brutally raped while defenceless. Would you wish a ten year sentence upon her?

    I'm guessing if someone used their fists to fight back someone dragging them into an ally, they should also get a 10 year sentence for improvising a deadly weapon from their bare hands.

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  19. Anonymous = Dan More

    Isn`t it the trouth, that since short firearms had been banned in teh UK, that specially knife crimes have gone up?

    Isnt`t it true, that since short firearms had been banned in the UK, violent crime has gone up drasticly?

    Isn`t it true, that banning short firearms in the UK hasn`t prevented further rampages with firearms? Wasn`t there just a rampage in the UK?

    The facts are, that there is no reeal danger in owning firearms legally. By banning firearms, you only encourage crime and leave innocent people defenceless agains aggressors.
    As drastic and horrifying rampages are, nothing by law can prevent them of happening, unfortunately. The only thing, that can lower the amount of rampages, is opening your eyes and accepting every person, no matter what social area he or she comes from.

    The reason for rampages is not lying in the tool used for it. Banning the tool is like cutting away a tumor, without curing the actual desease. And the desease, that causes rampages, is called: Human being!

    This short gun ban you have in the UK, causes other countries to laugh at you. Your olympian sportshooters, have to go to a different country to practice. But they bring back the medal for your country.
    Is that very patriotic?
    Is that how you suppport your international sportsmen and women?

    Shame on those, who think, the world will become a better one, if you jkust bann everythingm you don`t like, want or understand.

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  20. The above article was truly a masterclass example of objective reasoning and logical unbiased statement. It is a paragon of excellence, a clear example that the British people's pride in enlightened thinking is completely founded upon reality and not just a desperate attempt to cover up how communication has become primitive emotivism based where winning is based on mob rule. How noble in reason, how infinite in faculties this work is.

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  21. Question: Why, when less restrictive gun laws are passed violent crime decreases? (that´s a fact in every country of the world)

    Question 2: Why, when more restrictive gun laws are passed, violent crime rates rise?

    Question 3: Why countries like Mexico, UK, Romenia, etc, with very restrictive gun laws have huge violent crime rates?

    remember that almost anything can serve as a weapon, it only dependes on the intent of the user. Should kitchen knifes or forks be forbidden??

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  22. I was going to refute some of miss copes insane claims as well as the blog posters however as a few years have past all I would like to do is say that anyone wishing to join the discussion or campaign for armed self defence should visit www.armbritain.com

    one thing I would like to say that I find the blog posters attitude quite hypocritical and condecending not what one would expect from a so called "enlightened" or "more civilised" member of society.



    Thank you

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  23. This blog is utter rubbish, I am in agreement that the need for armed self defence should be a given right here for the citizens of the UK! too many times I hear how innocent people are subjected to crimes without any proper means of self defence, added to that is the fact that the current government is cutting back on policing (which is already over stretched) and what you have is a recipe for disaster.

    Anti gun people should really get their facts right before having their outbursts! a gun is simply a tool! it don't jump up on its own and kill people, it's not evil, it has no brain of its own either. In a situation where a innocent woman is being mugged or raped by a man who she has no chance of overpowering who is anyone to say that she has no right to defend herself?? police are never at the scene of a crime at the right time, they simply respond to a crime that has already happened.

    Our rights to bear arms wasn't taken from us they were stolen! by the government and the anti gun lunatics who truly want innocent people disarmed with no means to defend themselves from crime, they promised that the police would defend you but the reality is the gun laws have not worked, the police are never at the scene on time so now the law must be changed allowing innocent people the god given right for armed self defence and given people their beloved sports back.

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  24. Didn't look as though the barbarians that committed the Woolwich beheading were to concerned about gun laws...

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